Left Arm Flying Wedge and Plane
 

Is the entire Left Arm Flying Wedge Parallel to the Plane (not On Plane, as noted by Martee!) during the Stroke between the Startup Swivel and Release Swivel?

Thanks!

I think Mike O's answer on this is 'no, except only for brief periods'.

the chicken and the egg
 

And if so is the Flat Left Wrist a product rather than a cause?

Without the Flat Left Wrist there is no Left Arm Flying Wedge, regardless of its relation to the Plane.

On Plane or Parallel to Plane?

The reason for the question, is that if the aft side of the shaft is on plane, then the left arm would be hard pressed to be on plane

You're being quite precise Martee!

Well, "left palm facing directly toward the Plane" would mean parallel to the Plane to me.

I have edited my question at the beginning of this thread to accomodate your insight :).

or its equivalent......

Absolutely! E.g. with a Turned Left Hand...

Ok...we are all picking on little things about my question (which is all very good), but no one has attempted to answer it!

I would say Yep if employing Standard Wrist Action. Since the the Plane is defined by the Sweet-Spot Plane with Standard Wrist Action the Sweet-Spot is In-Line with the Left Arm.

That's my reasoning anyhow . . .

Answer to your initial question - no, it is not, although as a mental image/feel this can be helpful in some cases (Hogan's pane of glass)

Lets dig deeper
 

What is a Swivel?
A Swivel is a rotation of the Left Wrist from a Turned position to a Vertical position (Release Swivel) or from a Vertical position to a Turned position (Startup Swivel).

For those enquiring minds who need references to confirm what I've just stated:

4-C-2: “When TURNED…the left palm faces directly toward that Plane."

4-D-0:
"Normally, only Swingers with their Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A) “Swivel” –- that is, actually rotate the Left Wrist –- through Release into its Vertical Position for Impact." [bold by tongzilla]

10-18-A:
Standard Wrist Action
"With this procedure with Wrist is Turned and Cocked (FCT) during the Backstroke which requires that it be Rolled and Uncocked during the Release. Only where this procedure is used, do the Hands “Swivel” into Hinge Action Position." [bold by tongzilla]


Hence my conclusion:
The Left Arm Flying Wedge must be facing directly toward the Plane from the end of the Startup Swivel until the beginning of Release, according to The Golfing Machine.

But a lot of people disagree with that (including me). So it's either wrong, or have I missed something?

'facing the plane' and the 'entire left arm wedge parallel to the plane' are different.

Take a look at the photo 10-13-D #2. The hands are 'clapped' ONTO the plane, or as I like to say - "hugging the flail" ;)

One More Swivel
 

Or into a Wrists 'parallel to the Plane' (On Plane Condition) in the Finish Swivel (4-D-0 and 2-G).

Actuatlly, Homer said "facing directly toward the Plane.

And per 2-R, picture presents the subject only as noted in the written discussion and is not intended as a reference regarding any of the other aspects or subjects which the picture may include incidentally. 10-13-D #2 is showing Right Shoulder relationship with the Plane, no more, no less.

A Collegial Community
 

As I read this, I find myself thinking...

Around here, even the arguments are so...

Civilized.

Gotta love it!

Around here, it is more reasoned debate than unsubstantiated argument.

That's another reason why I love it!!!

Tong . . . why the disagreement? Interested to hear your opinion.

Thanks!

B

It's true man....you prolly can't find a thread in the forum that has been reduced to a name calling match. Most other forums have em in spades.

....all business....I like it. Argue but don't bitch.

Shut up Canada boy! Before we lob a nuke your way! :D

Back On Track
 

And now, as the original transgressor, may I suggest we return to our original programming...

The Left Arm Flying Wedge!

That includes you Doctor!

I have been waiting desperately...can you feel my frustration? #-o

My case is summarised in post #10 of this thread

Tongzilla Time
 

Hey, I've been way too busy answering all your questions in the 12-5-1 thread. :shock:

Not to mention your PMs!

It's a lot harder to answer questions than it is to ask them, particularly when you know those answers are going to put under the lasered scrutiny of the Tongzilla Magnifying Glass. :D

I love your questions and enthusiasm, but there's only so much of ol' Yoda to go around. Besides, you guys are doing a pretty good job here of sorting things out, even though I did have to chime in with an extra Swivel! :cool:

Hibernation
 

All my PMs? Magnifying Glass? LOL! :D

This topic requires careful study and consideration to ensure all relationships fit together. So lets give Yoda some space to gather his thoughts.

This thread may go into hibernation for 2 weeks. It will not be left forgotten in the back shelf for dust to lay on.

I'll be back. Albeit on the receiving end.

G'nite :)

Actually....

Wasnt Mike O ( and my) point that the entire left arm is not on plane at all times? I do not recall a discussion in regards to being parallel.....

Good morning Yoda!

left arm flying wedge
 

In this discussion, I like the word "toward". Considering the right shoulder is on plane at Top, I would find it difficult to also have the left arm there, too.

With all due respect to my highly esteemed friend...YodasLuke.....

if I'm interpreting this correctly ...we are talking the Top and the Left Arm in relation to the Shoulder Turn component????


Its not difficult to have the left Arm in the same plane/congruent plane as the Turned Shoulder...just increase the Waist Bend(45 degrees) until you get the right alignmentThe left arm at 45 degrees to the ground which by the way forms a right angle...very powerful location where the radius is now located at right angles to the rotating post......Flat Shoulder turn is replaced by Rotated Shoulder Turn...now you have the left arm plane congruent to the plane of the Shoulder Turn Component and at right angles to the axis of rotation...OOOH....Sorry....that's not in the book....

my mistake
 

LOL
I should have made the "I" a bold letter, with my strict adherence to 10-13-A. ;) Do you do 10-13-C (Rotated) while you're holding the proverbial corn-cob? :twisted:

[-o< Don't let him get angry....

Via the "sphincter mucles" and "Hammies" to maintain the balance throughout the weight shift(very minimal) that accompany the turning and bending necessary for the two line Delivery Paths....LOL[-X


BTW who wants to tackle the "Two Line Delivery Paths".....Where's the little green fellow?.....I'd like to hear from a Jedi...

the master
 

The Master is off to Orlando to work with another new student that plays on Tour. The word's getting out, and he was summoned to Florida. It was a last minute thing, and he left at 7:00 am. He'll be away from the computer all day. Out of respect for the player, he'll have to remain nameless. :-#

I understand and appreciate the anonymous label....after all....Most celebrities cannot stand "yahoos" any way.....


Yahoo:def: "Someone that tries to give verbal "BJ's" to someone who is already famous...tells the celeb what they've accomplished when the already know what they have accomplished...someone who tries to associate with the celeb..by saying..."Hey I saw you play when you played at Miami!"....Or "I played golf with your wife's sister's husband's friend and his brother-in-law"...Tries to befriend the celeb because of their connection or networking opportunities.....etc.....


Warren Sapp explained to this to me over some "bones and "Q" one evening in Tampa...He told me this great advice....Don't ever be a "yahoo" ...famous people don't like them....Just be quiet, genuine, and authentic....let them warm up to you...because they always think someone wants somethin from them.....


On another level.....I'm working with a celeb and have for the past 14 years and she kicked some "arse" last night...breaking some glass on the old Big Break V.....

I've worked with a few "celebs" throughout the years(when I was the Head Instructor at Pine Needles) and most of them like it straight up.....


One time I played a prank call on my father-in-law...I said I just got done giving a lesson to a guy named "John Bench"...My father-in-law said "Johnny Bench? The Hall of Fame Catcher for the Reds?...I said yeah...What's the Big Deal!!!! This guy asks me to give him a short game lesson and 1&1/2 hours later...he's given me a short game lesson with his expertise on the short game from all the famous golf instructors he's worked with....What waste of time!!! I dno't give sh*t who he is and who he has worked with...His short game sucked!!!!


My point is its good to work with these guys to help promote all the good things a LBG....but remember one thing when working Tour Players and Celeb....If you didn't start with them early on and help them move up..It's just a matter of time...before the house get's cleaned..ask Butchie....


The only difference with Lynn....He can actually make it "clean" !


Good Luck Lynn make sure you get everything in writing....Trust me I know from experience and ride them waves til they hit he beach.....